APAC75 - Revision history

Merv at 05:54, 21 June 2009

2009-06-21T05:54:41Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:54, 21 June 2009
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	\|[[APAC155\|'''excursus F''']]		\|[[APAC155\|'''excursus F''']]
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			\|[[APAC157\|'''chapter eight]]
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			\|[[APAC183\|'''excursus G''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-03-27T15:47:03Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:47, 28 March 2009
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	:~~From~~ two ~~of these~~ cases, Brother François-Régis and Brother Florentin, ~~we can conclude~~ that Marcellin Champagnat followed a different policy from Colin. Colin left the initiative to the men, and reserved to himself the judgment of their suitability and the final decision. Champagnat allowed men to volunteer, but he did not hesitate to take the initiative and to appoint someone he considered suitable. ~~Was there less enthusiasm among the Brothers?~~		:These two cases, Brother François-Régis and Brother Florentin, confirm that Marcellin Champagnat followed a different policy from Colin. Colin left the initiative to the men, and reserved to himself the judgment of their suitability and the final decision. Champagnat allowed men to volunteer, but he did not hesitate to take the initiative and to appoint someone he considered suitable.


	:Later, after three months together on the ship, the priests were not happy about the way the Brothers had been selected. Especially if the procure was to be entrusted to them it would be important to select them more carefully. One of the three (Florentin?) had told them he had just once mentioned Oceania, and was appointed without further ado. He regretted being on the way to Oceania.<ref> Baty to Colin, 12.01.39. Later on, Pompallier too was not impressed: '' ‘braves, mais .. peu formés ..et peu de têtes’, '' [[Girard0034\|LRO, doc. 34]] [17]. </ref>		:Later, after three months together on the ship, the priests were not happy about the way the Brothers had been selected. Especially if the procure was to be entrusted to them it would be important to select them more carefully. One of the three (Florentin?) had told them he had just once mentioned Oceania, and was appointed without further ado. He regretted being on the way to Oceania.<ref> Baty to Colin, 12.01.39. Later on, Pompallier too was not impressed: '' ‘braves, mais .. peu formés .. et peu de têtes’, '' [[Girard0034\|LRO, doc. 34]] [17]. </ref>

	=== Notes ===		=== Notes ===

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-03-27T15:40:44Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:40, 28 March 2009
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	:In January 1838 Fr. Champagnat left the Hermitage for Lyon and Paris where he hoped to obtain government recognition of the Marist Brothers as a teaching order.<ref> LC I, p. 328. Colin was in Belley and Champagnat did not go there. They did not meet. Cf. LC, doc 169. </ref> He was in Paris from ~~18 January~~ to ~~24 April and~~ again from 14 May to 2 July. His absences complicated the selection of the Brothers. On 23 January Colin wrote to Brother François Rivat that Bishop Pompallier had sailed from Valparaiso on 10 August. And that he had asked for three or four Brothers to be sent with the second group. Perhaps expecting Marcellin Champagnat to be back soon, he added: ‘When Fr. Champagnat returns we shall arrange things’.<ref> CS, doc. 31 [1]. The request for three or four Brothers sounds like a free quote from Pompallier’s letter of 28 July from Valparaiso ‘four priests and three Brothers’, [[Girard0018\|LRO, doc. 18]] [5]. The same letter says he hopes to leave on 1 August. That Colin makes it the 10th is a pure coincidence. He did not yet have that information. </ref>		:In January 1838 Fr. Champagnat left the Hermitage for Lyon and Paris where he hoped to obtain government recognition of the Marist Brothers as a teaching order.<ref> LC I, p. 328. Colin was in Belley and Champagnat did not go there. They did not meet. Cf. LC, doc 169. </ref> From 18 January to 24 April he was in Paris, from where he mailed two letters to his old house-mate Servant in New Zealand.<ref>LO, Clisby 013 [1].</ref> He was in Paris again from 14 May to 2 July. His absences complicated the selection of the Brothers. On 23 January Colin wrote to Brother François Rivat that Bishop Pompallier had sailed from Valparaiso on 10 August. And that he had asked for three or four Brothers to be sent with the second group. Perhaps expecting Marcellin Champagnat to be back soon, he added: ‘When Fr. Champagnat returns we shall arrange things’.<ref> CS, doc. 31 [1]. The request for three or four Brothers sounds like a free quote from Pompallier’s letter of 28 July from Valparaiso ‘four priests and three Brothers’, [[Girard0018\|LRO, doc. 18]] [5]. The same letter says he hopes to leave on 1 August. That Colin makes it the 10th is a pure coincidence. He did not yet have that information. </ref>

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-03-27T15:31:09Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:31, 28 March 2009
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	:'''Louis-Maxime Petit'''<ref> APM, personal file. </ref> was the first Marist who did not come from south-eastern France but from Arras, on the coast of the English Channel. Born in October 1797, he ~~would be~~ the ~~oldest missionary sent out so far~~. He entered the Marist novitiate in May 1837 ~~as a priest of the diocese of Boulogne~~.<ref> CS I, p. 652. </ref> ~~He most probably had heard at home of the first group that left from nearby Le Havre, and presented himself in view of the Oceania missions.~~ The suggestion that Colin made to Cardinal Fransoni, i.e., to send a few missionaries to Rome, may have come from ~~him~~. On 20 January Colin wrote to him to forget about going to Rome, quoting the cardinal.<ref> CS, doc. 29. Cf. [[APAC67#Confusion_in_Rome\|above, p. 68.]] </ref> It gave Colin an opportunity to give him some of his manly spiritual direction: purify your motivations! Colin made him wait for the appointment to the islands, insisting that he learn to accept decisions of his superiors instead of arranging his own life. He was professed on 16 July 1838.		:'''Louis-Maxime Petit'''<ref> APM, personal file. </ref> was the first Marist who did not come from south-eastern France but from Arras, on the coast of the English Channel. Born in October 1797, he became a priest in the diocese of Boulogne. When Pompallier was in Le Havre, on the point of leaving for Oceania, Petit heard about it and asked if he could join him. The bishop answered it was too late to join the present group, but if he wished to come in a later group, he should enter the Society of Mary. He entered the Marist novitiate in May 1837.<ref> MM, 1A, p. 80f. CS, p. 652.</ref>


			:The suggestion that Colin made to Cardinal Fransoni, i.e., to send a few missionaries to Rome, may have come from Petit. On 20 January Colin wrote to him to forget about going to Rome, quoting the cardinal.<ref> CS, doc. 29. Cf. [[APAC67#Confusion_in_Rome\|above, p. 68.]] </ref> It gave Colin an opportunity to give him some of his manly spiritual direction: purify your motivations! Colin made him wait for the appointment to the islands, insisting that he learn to accept decisions of his superiors instead of arranging his own life. He was professed on 16 July 1838.

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-01-04T19:38:00Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:38, 5 January 2009
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	:The third priest was '''Jean-Baptiste Épalle'''<ref> Monfat, ''Dix Années en Mélanésie'', pp. 45ff. </ref>, born 8 March 1808 in Marlhes, the same parish where Marcellin Champagnat came from.<ref> M. Champagnat was born in Le Rozey, a hamlet within the parish of Marlhes, cf. Farrell, op. cit., p. 6. </ref> After the minor seminary in St. Jodard, he entered Saint-Irénée in 1834 and joined the Marists in September 1837. Both he and Petit were assigned to the missions while novices. He too was professed on 16 July 1838.<ref> It may point to an authoritarian and dependent character that Épalle remained unsure of the validity of his profession because he had not done a full year of novitiate. Colin advised him to do his vows again in private when im Valparaiso, which he did. He did it again in the hands of Bishop Pompallier, but then began to doubt if Pompallier was authorized to receive vows of Marists and he appealed again to Colin. Cf. Garin to Colin, end 1841, [[Girard0122\|LRO, doc. 122 [2] ]].</ref>		:The third priest was '''Jean-Baptiste Épalle'''<ref> Monfat, ''Dix Années en Mélanésie'', pp. 45ff. </ref>, born 8 March 1808 in Marlhes, the same parish where Marcellin Champagnat came from.<ref> M. Champagnat was born in Le Rozey, a hamlet within the parish of Marlhes, cf. Farrell, op. cit., p. 6. </ref> After the minor seminary in St. Jodard, he entered Saint-Irénée in 1834 and joined the Marists in September 1837. Both he and Petit were assigned to the missions while novices. He too was professed on 16 July 1838.<ref> It may point to an authoritarian and dependent character that Épalle remained unsure of the validity of his profession because he had not done a full year of novitiate. Colin advised him to make his vows again in private when in Valparaiso, which he did. He did it again in the hands of Bishop Pompallier, but then began to doubt if Pompallier was authorized to receive vows of Marists and he appealed again to Colin. Cf. Garin to Colin, end 1841, [[Girard0122\|LRO, doc. 122 [2] ]].</ref>

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-01-04T18:54:25Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:54, 5 January 2009
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	:The selection of the Brothers started before Champagnat ~~had~~ left. Brother Denis Bron<ref> LC II, p. 171f. </ref>, superior of the community in St. Didier, had volunteered. Champagnat answered: ‘I think your desire comes from God. I believe you have the graces and the gift for that work. Keep it in mind. Keep your accounts in order so that if you are called to leave, you will be ready’.<ref> LC, doc. 168. </ref> In fact, Denis never left for Oceania.		:The selection of the Brothers had started before Champagnat left. Brother Denis Bron<ref> LC II, p. 171f. </ref>, superior of the community in St. Didier, had volunteered. Champagnat answered: ‘I think your desire comes from God. I believe you have the graces and the gift for that work. Keep it in mind. Keep your accounts in order so that if you are called to leave, you will be ready’.<ref> LC, doc. 168. </ref> In fact, Denis never left for Oceania.

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-01-04T18:31:15Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:31, 5 January 2009
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	:The third priest was '''Jean-Baptiste Épalle'''<ref> Monfat, ''Dix Années en Mélanésie'', pp. 45ff. </ref>, born 8 March 1808 in Marlhes, the same parish where Marcellin Champagnat came from.<ref> M. Champagnat was born in Le Rozey, a hamlet within the parish of Marlhes, cf. Farrell, op. cit., p. 6. </ref> After the minor seminary in St. Jodard, he entered Saint-Irénée in 1834 and joined the Marists in September 1837. Both he and Petit were assigned to the missions while novices. He too was professed on 16 July 1838.<ref> It may point to an authoritarian and dependent character that Épalle remained unsure of the validity of his profession because he had not done a full year of novitiate. Colin advised him to do his vows again in private when im Valparaiso, which he did. He did it again in the hands of Bishop Pompallier, but then began to doubt if Pompallier was authorized to receive vows of Marists and he appealed again to Colin. Cf. Garin to Colin, end 1841, [[Girard0122\|LRO, doc. 122 [2] ]].		:The third priest was '''Jean-Baptiste Épalle'''<ref> Monfat, ''Dix Années en Mélanésie'', pp. 45ff. </ref>, born 8 March 1808 in Marlhes, the same parish where Marcellin Champagnat came from.<ref> M. Champagnat was born in Le Rozey, a hamlet within the parish of Marlhes, cf. Farrell, op. cit., p. 6. </ref> After the minor seminary in St. Jodard, he entered Saint-Irénée in 1834 and joined the Marists in September 1837. Both he and Petit were assigned to the missions while novices. He too was professed on 16 July 1838.<ref> It may point to an authoritarian and dependent character that Épalle remained unsure of the validity of his profession because he had not done a full year of novitiate. Colin advised him to do his vows again in private when im Valparaiso, which he did. He did it again in the hands of Bishop Pompallier, but then began to doubt if Pompallier was authorized to receive vows of Marists and he appealed again to Colin. Cf. Garin to Colin, end 1841, [[Girard0122\|LRO, doc. 122 [2] ]].</ref>

Jan: /* Selecting a team */

2009-01-04T18:28:24Z

Selecting a team

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:28, 5 January 2009
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	:The third priest was '''Jean-Baptiste Épalle'''<ref> Monfat, ''Dix Années en Mélanésie'', pp. 45ff. </ref>, born 8 March 1808 in Marlhes, the same parish where Marcellin Champagnat came from.<ref> M. Champagnat was born in Le Rozey, a hamlet within the parish of Marlhes, cf. Farrell, op. cit., p. 6. </ref> After the minor seminary in St. Jodard, he entered Saint-Irénée in 1834 and joined the Marists in September 1837. Both he and Petit were assigned to the missions while novices. He too was professed on 16 July 1838.		:The third priest was '''Jean-Baptiste Épalle'''<ref> Monfat, ''Dix Années en Mélanésie'', pp. 45ff. </ref>, born 8 March 1808 in Marlhes, the same parish where Marcellin Champagnat came from.<ref> M. Champagnat was born in Le Rozey, a hamlet within the parish of Marlhes, cf. Farrell, op. cit., p. 6. </ref> After the minor seminary in St. Jodard, he entered Saint-Irénée in 1834 and joined the Marists in September 1837. Both he and Petit were assigned to the missions while novices. He too was professed on 16 July 1838.<ref> It may point to an authoritarian and dependent character that Épalle remained unsure of the validity of his profession because he had not done a full year of novitiate. Colin advised him to do his vows again in private when im Valparaiso, which he did. He did it again in the hands of Bishop Pompallier, but then began to doubt if Pompallier was authorized to receive vows of Marists and he appealed again to Colin. Cf. Garin to Colin, end 1841, [[Girard0122\|LRO, doc. 122 [2] ]].


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	:Later, after three months together on the ship, the priests were not happy about the way the Brothers had been selected. Especially if the procure was to be entrusted to them it would be important to select them more carefully. One of the three (Florentin?) had told them he had just once mentioned Oceania, and was appointed without further ado. He regretted being on the way to Oceania.<ref> Baty to Colin, 12.01.39. Later on, Pompallier too was not impressed: '' ‘braves, mais .. peu formés ..et peu de têtes’, '' [[Girard0034\|LRO, doc. 34]] [17]. </ref>		:Later, after three months together on the ship, the priests were not happy about the way the Brothers had been selected. Especially if the procure was to be entrusted to them it would be important to select them more carefully. One of the three (Florentin?) had told them he had just once mentioned Oceania, and was appointed without further ado. He regretted being on the way to Oceania.<ref> Baty to Colin, 12.01.39. Later on, Pompallier too was not impressed: '' ‘braves, mais .. peu formés ..et peu de têtes’, '' [[Girard0034\|LRO, doc. 34]] [17]. </ref>


	=== Notes ===		=== Notes ===

Merv at 07:16, 15 December 2008

2008-12-15T07:16:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:16, 15 December 2008
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	\|[[APAC142\|'''excursus E''']]		\|[[APAC142\|'''excursus E''']]
			\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
			\|[[APAC155\|'''excursus F''']]
	\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise		\|-bgcolor=PaleTurquoise
	\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]		\|[[APAC:Epilogue\|'''epilogue''']]

Jan: /* Colin in action */

2008-11-25T21:19:16Z

Colin in action

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:19, 26 November 2008
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	:Pompallier later ~~agreed~~ that Colin had been right in not sending a follow-up team before hearing from Valparaiso, but he also felt that by then Colin ~~could~~ have had a team ready to leave. He did not see why, from that moment, it took Colin another nine months to get a team on the way.<ref> [[Girard0037\|LRO, doc. 37]] [6]. </ref> Perhaps he had a point. Leaving problems to solve themselves came natural to Colin. ‘My great principle has always been to wait for the moment of Providence’.<ref> ''Mon grand principe a toujours été d`attendre le moment de la Providence'', OM II, doc. 425 [17], April 1838. </ref> ~~This~~ time ~~however,~~ there was more to it. Colin consulted the bishops of Lyon and Belley. It seems they both supported a delay.<ref> We know this only from a later remark of Pompallier (14.05.1840), where he reproached Colin having listened more to the bishops of Lyon and Belley than to him. How he found out we do not know. [[Girard0059\|LRO, doc. 59]] [24].</ref> Still, to follow the imagery he himself liked to use, the man battling away at the front, not knowing what action, if any, was being taken, cannot be blamed for expecting a little more decisiveness.		:Pompallier later conceded that Colin had been right in not sending a follow-up team before hearing from Valparaiso, but he also felt that by then Colin should have had a team ready to leave. He did not see why, from that moment, it took Colin another nine months to get a team on the way.<ref> [[Girard0037\|LRO, doc. 37]] [6]. </ref> Perhaps he had a point. Leaving problems to solve themselves came natural to Colin. ‘My great principle has always been to wait for the moment of Providence’.<ref> ''Mon grand principe a toujours été d`attendre le moment de la Providence'', OM II, doc. 425 [17], April 1838. </ref> However, this time there was more to it. Colin had consulted the bishops of Lyon and Belley. It seems they both had supported a delay.<ref> We know this only from a later remark of Pompallier (14.05.1840), where he reproached Colin having listened more to the bishops of Lyon and Belley than to him. How he found out we do not know. [[Girard0059\|LRO, doc. 59]] [24].</ref> Still, to follow the imagery he himself liked to use, the man battling away at the front, not knowing what action, if any, was being taken, cannot be blamed for expecting a little more decisiveness.